Some musicians experience a double bind, where they are touring too much to have a reliable day job yet don’t make enough money solely through their music to get by. Have you been in this position? What did you have to do to make touring feasible for you?

For better or worse, I haven’t yet been in this position. I’ve never made real money from music, essentially the little I do make goes back into it and then some, but I’ve been able to have a consistent day job since around the time I started touring.

What does daily life look like for you currently? Do you have a day job - or some sort of side hustle to supplement money for being a musician? What do you do for work?

I do, I work full-time in a management-level job at a music education nonprofit. I feel lucky to have a lot of autonomy at my job and to have created something that fits with my music work, pays okay, and gives me health insurance. It’s mostly remote and because they employ mostly professional musicians they’ve been really cool about me working from the road. Also, because it’s in education, which sticks to a very consistent school year calendar, I know what times of year I need not to plan to be super busy with music. The balance mostly works, and I’m generally able to keep both areas happy and do a good job. But it took a while to get to this point, and sometimes I’m still working twelve hours a day because I just have to get things done.

Two summers ago, I was about to go on a few dates supporting Iron & Wine, and something unexpected happened at work while I was already on the East Coast for rehearsals. I remember frantically writing a press release and taking a break every few minutes to fold and organize merch T-shirts; it also happened to be my birthday. Silly in hindsight, and definitely not the worst situation work-wise. But as I get older I wish the options weren’t just: spread yourself thin to have income and health security or have more time and freedom to create but spend most of it being constantly worried about money. 

What are your financial goals in playing music? Are they different from when you first started out?

My goals are honestly to break even and pay my musicians decently. For most of the people I work with now, they do rely on show and session income to pay their bills. I have really been trying to plan more in terms of budgeting, especially around tours. I had a moment out on a full band tour in 2022 where shows were selling the worst I’ve ever experienced, and it made me realize that I need to have better budgets. Do I want to tour with a six-person band? Yes! Can I afford to pay six people fairly on tour? Unfortunately, no, not in this economy. So I have been figuring out how to play as a trio and still bring the level of energy I want to do the songs justice. It has been a fun challenge musically and makes a tour much more financially responsible. I can’t go into more debt, as much as I love to do this. I self-release my music, so saving up to give myself an “advance” to make the next record is my next financial goal. 

Why do you choose this life? What do you get out of it?

I think being an artist chose me. That sounds corny, but I really believe it. I have tried, at various times to put less of myself into making creative work, but I keep coming back to it like a magnet. Regardless of the amount of commercial success I have, I will keep living a creative life. I realized a while ago that an artist is the only thing I ever really wanted to be, and I am one. That’s incredible, and I am happy.

Do you feel like you’re seen as childish for pursuing music as a career?

Not particularly, but also, I couldn’t care less if other people see it that way. I treat being a professional artist more like a calling, like becoming part of a holy order, and I hope that the reverence I have for it and the way I speak about it comes across as very sacred. The more I explain to outsiders the doggedness of the work involved at this level the more they seem to take what I do very seriously.

What is your stance on streaming and the “future” of how people consume music?

Oh man. As my old boss would say, “That’s a two-martini lunch.” I think that streaming had such promise in the beginning - people genuinely thought it would mean equity between big and independent artists. But of course, we have no real protections in place to keep companies from taking advantage of us, especially those of us with small (or no) labels. I also do still like the ability for fans, radio DJs, music blogs, artists, etc being able to share playlists of the music they like, an online version of making a mix CD or tape. But now people think that they deserve access to every song in the world and that music should just be playing in this constant, passive way. As someone who specifically does not make music that I want people to passively engage with (lyrics, anyone?), this is tough to witness.

There is a desperation around getting on playlists, and I understand why. But I don’t think this necessarily results in getting more long-term fans who buy records and tickets to shows. It seems like it’s mainly a flash in the pan, and the artists that I’ve tended to become a huge fan of are the ones who were recommended to me by another human, not an algorithm. The element of personal connection and community is crucial and so overlooked at this point.

Why do you create?

This is the one thing that originates from something in me I don’t fully understand. I don’t know why I create - I just have to and just will. I just seem to have a tendency toward imagining, reimagining, and examining. If I’m actively working on something and I wake up in the middle of the night, some part of it will be playing over and over again in my head, in different ways, with different arrangements. I feel like my subconscious is always making something, or trying to work out something creatively.

Favorite recording tools that you use?

Reaper is the DAW I work out of. I know a lot of folks use Ableton, but I prefer to be able to edit as I go and explore different textures and placements when I’m arranging, and I work faster in it. I have a Novation MIDI keyboard that I use for anything that’s not guitar, saxophone, my voice, or live percussion. And I use Sibelius to compose. Those are the three things that are my “favorite” in that I absolutely need them, haha. I’ve been doing the most with the minimum for a while for demos and songwriting.

How do you replenish your creative energy?

First, by consuming less. There is so much stuff to read, and listen to, and watch, and consider, but the best way I’ve found to replenish creativity is to consume less and spend some time in silence, seeing nothing, being bored. I am taking Brian Eno’s workshop with School of Song right now and this is a huge thing for him as well, and for Julia Cameron (The Artist’s Way).