How do you move past the anxiety that your societal worth is placed on your production?

Whoa yeah. Sometimes anxiety wins because of what we see in our physical reality. Our societal worth is totally placed on our productivity, but if I can sort of trick my mind into the mode where I'm getting some joy from the act of rebelling against that idea and redefining my worth outside of the societal lens, that sometimes helps me get out of my own way on a day where that feeling is really killing me. I think everyone should just practice saying "I’m fucking awesome because I care about people and I try, and I’m cute, and I’m talented and it doesn’t matter what I do with that," and it shouldn’t be compared to anyone or anything else. Even if you don’t believe it, it’s probably good to introduce an equal amount of aggressive positivity since society under capitalism says we’re worthless at every opportunity. See if you can get some joy from saying fuck society.

What’s one essential rider item you would recommend and why?

My signature rider item forever was a pair of socks. Being able to put on a fresh pair of socks right before you go onstage feels amazing, it’s like your feet go back in time to the beginning of your day, before all the driving, before load in and soundcheck and sitting around in the greenroom sweating nervously. Plus I just enjoyed seeing what kinds of socks people would pick out. I think my favorite pair were these neon construction work socks that a promoter in Japan picked up. I still wear them, in fact I’m wearing them right now!

Are there any misconceptions about music finances that you wish other people outside of the music industry understood? Or financial advice you would give to your younger self?

I think something most folks who don’t play music don't know is that the offer you get for a show is not what you're going to take home. There are so many expenses, from paying your band (as you should and fairly I pray!), to gas, lodging, food, agent fees, management fees, the cost of printing merch, merch cuts (it still happens!), in some cases extra taxes, insurance, waivers…all this extra STUFF. I see a lot more folks online sharing breakdowns of these expenses which I think is a great step in demystifying all of this, but even the ones I see online are VERY optimistic. I still play plenty of shows that I lose money on. The hope is that it balances out with the ones that make more, but usually at the end of a tour the only real profit I come home with is whatever I sold in merch. Which is why we all joke that we’re actually t-shirt salespeople, which I guess would make the concert just a marketing event for the sale of said shirts! And I already know someone who reads this will be like "well why don't you just sleep in the car and drink your own spit when you're thirsty so you don't lose money, you get to play music for a living stop complaining" to which I will preemptively say there is no other job that you would ask someone to be this uncomfortable in. If you would rather be sleeping on someone's floor than whatever your job is then go for it, but don't ask people who have spent years in their line of work to accept poor working conditions just because you think their job sounds fun. Weirdo behavior, I'll never understand.

Do you feel like there is financial, and emotional sustainability and stability in being a touring musician? Or do you have an alternative plan down the road?

No! And I have no plan! What have I done?

Why do you choose this life? What do you get out of it?

There is so much stress, so little security and all the down sides to doing music, not only touring but making albums, releasing them, advertising it and all that - which can really cloud what the purpose behind all of it is. When I can’t pinpoint the intention behind all this work I just go back to the baseline idea that an opportunity to be creative with my friends will create a significant memory which is all any of us have to show for our lives in the end.

Have you thought about quitting music? What prompted it and what ultimately caused you to want to continue? ‍

Yes! A couple times in my early twenties, I used to say “music is breaking up with me” because it felt so heart wrenching to feel like I was sitting down everyday to try and it just wouldn’t shine that light on me anymore. That was before I did music full time, so it wasn’t really the industry, just a creative block or depression. I think it helps me categorize the level of significance in whatever problems I come across on the business side now to remember those moments because it felt SO much worse to be disconnected from my creativity than it does (currently!) to be disconnected from money lol.