In the last few years, you’ve created a TV show, a graphic novel, an audiobook, and a memoir. What are the rewards and challenges of using these different mediums to tell stories?

Exploring these different mediums has been incredibly rewarding creatively. It’s offered Sara and me unique opportunities to connect with our audience in different ways. The graphic novel process taught us how to write a script and allowed us to work with Tillie Walden whom we admired. It’s also aimed at a younger audience than we are typically creating for, so that provided a new challenge for us. The memoir allowed us to delve deeper into our adolescence and explore how our sexuality and time in high school influenced so much of our early music and choices. There are tons of challenges to working in these new spaces, we had to adapt our storytelling style to fit the format and learn new skills which sometimes was hard (especially for me). But reaching new audiences who may not be familiar with our music felt like the reward for all that work.

There is a lot more collaboration between us now in music since we had to collaborate so much on the books. It has encouraged us to think more visually and narratively and to consider how our music can complement other forms of storytelling.

What’s one positive change you’ve seen in the music industry in the last 20 years? What’s one new obstacle that you’ve seen younger artists encounter that didn’t exist 20 years ago?

One positive change I've seen is the rise of digital platforms and social media, which have democratized access to music and allowed independent artists to reach a wider audience without relying on traditional gatekeepers. But the downside to both is the saturation of the market and the challenge of standing out in a crowded landscape. With so much content available online, it can be difficult for any artist – new or established - to break through the noise.  Coupled with the extreme pressure to create content and constantly update multiple social media platforms while making music and touring it’s honestly become exhausting.  We love the access to our audience, the direct contact, and the ability to get news, music, updates etc. to people quickly, but it’s also a drain.

So much of your recent work reflects on your early lives and careers together. I’m refreshed by how honest you are about the toll of being a working musician for so long. Why is it so difficult for musicians to talk about burnout and say “no” to things beyond their capacity?

I think there's a stigma surrounding burnout in the music industry. There is so much pressure to constantly produce and perform and create. And it’s coupled with this idea that we need to be happy and indefatigable at all times. Most of us are pushing ourselves beyond our limits. I have felt fear when expressing exhaustion when opportunities we've been given are offered. No one prioritized mental and physical health or boundaries in our early careers. Figuring out how to prevent burnout was not part of the equation. I think that has changed a lot. But it still happens. Success is a high-speed train. It’s hard to get off. I hope that expressing what we went through inspires artists to slow down and manage expectations. But it’s hard. The music world moves quickly. Social media has created a fast-forward version of the life cycle of a song. I get why new artists feel panicked and pressured. But we must balance that. We need balance to have longevity. To build the next icons we have to invest. And investment takes time.

How has “leaning into legacy” and restructuring your careers created more balance in your lives? What does that look like?

It’s taken the pressure off sales and awards and put it on digging deep to create something meaningful that will last. I am less focused on climbing and grinding for success and much more interested in growing myself, as opposed to our career. My life is getting fuller, not bigger. I’m less focused on numbers (sales, streams etc.) and more interested in how I make people feel, and how I feel in my everyday life. And most of all, we think constantly now about how to give back. I want people to remember me, and our band, and the stuff we made as being important and meaningful. I don’t care to be remembered for how many awards we won, or albums we sold.

What’s the best advice you’ve been given? It can be from anyone!

It’s silly and overly simplistic to say this, but early on we were told not to rush. We needed time to develop, time to get better, time to learn how to entertain an audience, to write with more depth, to play our instruments better. We needed to go live and explore and travel and experience things to truly have something to say. While we didn’t take that 100% to heart, it was there, thrumming in the background, and I think in hindsight, twenty years down the road, it’s mostly true. People want everything so fast now. They want success all at once. It doesn’t work that way. And if it does, it’s hard to sustain. Be patient, enjoy stuff as it comes, and have goals for next record/cycle/song…these are the things I tell myself now based on that initial important insight we got when we were starting out. Basically…chill…

What does “home” mean to you as someone who frequently is traveling?

I definitely established early on that I could not compartmentalize my life. There was my life at home and my life on the road. And to me, for those to be full and healthy they had to be connected. So, I worked to always make touring feel like home, as much as I made my home feel like a place, I could be creative and work. There had to be a flow between both. So we encouraged family, friends, and girlfriends to come on tour. I make space to connect with people at home every single day. I have routines that make any space – airport lounge, back stage, on stage, hotels, bus – feel comfortable and familiar and safe so I never feel displaced. I ultimately just turned everything I do outside my home, an extension of something I do in my home.

What is road life like? Describe it how you see it.

Look, it’s rough. You’re sleeping somewhere different every night, even in the bus, you’re moving between cities overnight. So sleep is not great. It’s not ever deep or unbroken the way sleep at home can be. So the second you hit the road, you’re immediately working from a deficit of rest. That makes everything just a little bit off. Couple that with a diet of take out and your body just doesn’t feel or behave the same as it does at home. Then throw in the fact that you’re almost always surrounded by people and sharing space. You have to work to have alone time.  So the bulk of your time is not yours, and it’s being social.  But for me you’re also in this constant state of searching for purpose and meaning. I have to find that to balance the feeling of being away from my partner and life at home. I try to create adventure and new experiences every day so that I have something interesting to report back. I spend a lot of time backstage shooting the shit with everybody, so it’s also a lot of sharing, oversharing, bonding and storytelling. And we only play 90 minutes a day 5 days a week. So a lot of our life on the road is spent waiting. Waiting to arrive, waiting for a hotel room, waiting for a shower, waiting to go to the venue, waiting for soundcheck, for dinner, for the show, to go on stage, then for the bus to leave and sleep to come. It’s like…Christmas day every day but instead of gifts is the joy of playing music and instead of Turkey it’s Thai food.  

What are some touring “road hacks” you have developed that help you get through a tour?

Have great books, podcasts and shows to fill the downtime and travel days. Sleeping pills for the night before a big TV show performance to ensure a solid eight hours of rest. Water. Drink water. Then drink more water. Always put something you’d never leave behind next to your phone charger. This means you’ll never leave behind your phone charger! Create routines to make every new space feel like home.  Walk as much as you can before a long flight. Tire yourself out! The airport is full of interesting things to see. Walk! Lots of vitamin C, lots of pro biotics, lots of laughs.

Describe a moment when you felt like you “made it” - whatever that means!

I remember showing up to a venue somewhere in a small town in Ontario, this was probably in the year 2001, and we sound checked and went to the hotel. And when we got back there was a line up around the block at the club. And we got inside and asked the manager who the line was for, and he said, you guys, the show is sold out. That night and every night after for a good three weeks as we crossed Canada was the same. I remember getting home and thinking, okay I think this is going to work. I think we’re going to be able to be a band and survive. It was a relief honestly. Truly.

What’s the most “extra” thing you have brought on the road?

A heating pad! Perfect to make the bus bunk cozy and warm. Great for days off laying in bed at the hotel. Great if you get sick. Great if you are sore from too many shows in a row. It’s just truly the best thing I can imagine to have on tour!